Transcript

Lori:Well, hello, Sarah, and hello, Mitch. Welcome to you both.

Mitch: Thanks.

Lori: Welcome to Happy Hour. What are you drinking for this happy hour?

Mitch: Well, I’m in the Pacific time zone like you, so not quite there yet, but Sarah is on the East Coast, so…

Sarah: Yeah, I just got home from school about 30 minutes ago, so this is truly my happy hour. And I have my cup of coffee in hand.

Lori: Perfect.

Mitch: Yeah, Sarah’s an afternoon coffee person. I can’t do that.

Sarah: I can’t either.

Mitch: No, not a chance.

Sarah: No. Once noon hits, can’t do it. Get all shaky. And I really aspire to be like you, Sarah, and to be able to drink coffee at any time of the day. And I always think of the Gilmore Girls, how they always have coffee and they can sleep like an accessory. Yeah, I have no trouble sleeping, so I actually feel like I need a little caffeine in the afternoon just to keep me going for being mom and dinner and all of that homework. So, yeah.

Lori: All right, well, you enjoy that coffee. And we are here today to talk about executive functioning. Mitch, you were on our podcast in 2023. I just looked it up.

Mitch: 2023, yes. Oh my gosh.

Lori: I know. And we talked about building routines for middle school students, high school students. And so now today we’re going to focus a little bit more on these executive functioning skills, but more toward the K through 3 level, I believe, or elementary school level.

How do executive functioning skills look different in K through 3 versus what we talked about last time, middle school and high school?

Mitch: I’ll jump in. And then, Sarah, you follow on this one, because I’m glad you started there, Lori. In upper elementary, middle, high school, college, young adulthood, you hear the term executive functioning skills because, although they are these cognitive processes, executive functions, we know in the brain where they’re happening. You’re really looking for concrete behaviors or skills at that level, which is different than when we look at the primary years, K–1–2–3.

And to back up a little bit more, there’s actually two categories or domains of executive functioning. What we talked about in 2023 would certainly be categorized as higher-order executive functioning. There’s also core executive functioning, which Sarah and I have collaborated in that space to make that distinction. So I’m going to hand it off to Sarah there. But it’s a really good starting point for this conversation.

Sarah: Yeah, thanks, Mitch. In a K–3 context, you’re going to see executive functions in a phase of development. What does that look like? That looks like kids that are impulsive, kids that are—typical things you would think of with five- through nine-year-olds. We’re learning to keep our hands to ourselves. We’re having trouble maybe remembering directions, struggling to understand other people’s perspectives. All of those types of behaviors, or maturity, are supported by your executive functions.

There’s three core executive functions: working memory, inhibition, and cognitive flexibility. If you’re thinking of a first grader, for example, you’re going to see something very different with a first grader struggling with inhibition than you will with, let’s say, a high schooler.

In terms of development, the core executive functions are like toddler through early middle school. That’s when they really start to develop and then peak. And the higher-order don’t kick in until around that middle school time. We’re talking about reasoning, planning, and problem solving.

So the work that Mitch and I have been doing focuses on the three core executive functions. Working memory is a mental space where you are holding information, but you are also working with it. So you’re not just passively hanging onto something. You’re in the moment trying to figure out sequencing steps or following directions or doing some kind of computation or comprehension. If you’re reading and trying to understand what you’re reading in the moment, that involves working memory.

Inhibition encompasses two things. The first thing is being able to resist acting on impulse or reflex. So we’re thinking of kids who can think before they speak, can pause before they do some sort of action that is maladaptive in the moment. And cognitive flexibility has to do with perspective taking. It has to do with adapting to change, particularly unexpected change. And it has to do with shifting in an academic setting—being done with math and now starting writing—transitioning quickly from one activity to another.

Those are relevant for K–3 because those are really what we would expect to be growing during those years. We’re not really interested in the higher-order at that time because most of our kids are still strengthening the executive functions that are the foundation for the higher-order executive functions.

Lori: I see. So just to clarify, when you first started talking, I was thinking you were saying that young children don’t have executive functioning skills such as organization, planning, prioritizing, things like that. They do. It’s just not as big of a focus. Is that what I’m hearing?

Sarah: Younger students—let’s say even preschool—their executive functions are developing, but they’re developing the foundational executive functions. Executive functions are actually not behaviors. They are cognitive processes. The way they’re discussed in the field is usually in terms of some sort of behavior or skill. But really it would be akin to if I said your memory is a skill. There are behaviors and things you can do to support your memory, but memory itself is a cognitive process.

Our youngest students absolutely have executive functions, but they are developing. So as we’re teaching kindergarten, first grade, second grade, even third grade, we have to keep in mind that students are cognitively growing tremendously in that time. We just have to keep in mind some of the capabilities they do have, and some capabilities that are still growing.

Mitch: The way I frame it is it’s not that we wouldn’t care about a first grader learning to get and stay organized or some of these skills. But even though we have developmental time frames, the work is applicable in both directions—core all the way up, and higher-order down a little bit.

It’s the lens: looking at a child’s behavior. I was just on a call today with an educator who said, “Oh, that student’s acting this way—could that be an executive functioning thing?” So it’s that lens for the core EFs in the younger years. Keeping in mind it’s all in process, it’s developmental.

But if you stepped inside Sarah’s classroom, there are very clear routines. The environment is structured to support organization in students. It’s that idea that they’re emerging at that age and to keep that front and center.

Lori: That makes complete sense. And so probably around grade 4 and higher is when you’re still focusing on those cognitive processes, core, and moving on to the higher-order executive functions.

Mitch: Yes. And when we say grades three and four, we’re very U.S.-context. But around that point, there’s often an unspoken expectation that students gradually start to become more independent learners. That shift does happen and it coincides with the development of these higher-order executive functions.

And what Sarah and I are trying to shed light on is: yes, that’s happening developmentally, it’s well documented in research. But we have to be mindful of it because we expect certain things from students without explicit instruction on those expectations or behaviors.

Lori: I like what you said about expectations. I remember reading Driven to Distraction when I was teaching fourth grade back in 2003. Many students were starting to get diagnosed with ADHD around that fourth grade period. I’m wondering if there’s a correlation between that expectation of what they “should” be able to do around that time versus before. Does that make sense?

Sarah: Yeah. And unfortunately, we see a lot of that even in the very early elementary years. Keeping in mind what a student who’s six, seven, eight is capable of—everybody’s individual. Same as physical development.

When you know a little bit about executive functions, it can inform your expectations. It can also support the way you think about your instruction, the physical space you teach in, the routines you design, so you’re not putting undue pressure on your students. You might have a student you think is inattentive, but there might be something in the environment or the way you’re instructing that is making it more challenging for that child to pay attention, remember content, remember directions, or keep belongings together.

And I want to be clear: working memory, inhibition, and cognitive flexibility are relevant for everybody, no matter what age you are. Adults use working memory every day. We inhibit—maybe you’re trying to eat healthier, or you’re driving and trying not to look at your phone. These things matter at any age. But for the little ones, it’s especially relevant because that’s where they are developmentally.

There are simple, seamless things you can embed and tweak within your practice that can offload unnecessary strain that might be on your students’ ability to self-regulate.

Mitch: Every time Sarah and I talk about this, it comes up: it’s relevant in both directions. Go to almost any ninth grade classroom and you’ll see elements of it.

It’s not something else to do. It’s a lens through which you see it, and it’s often an easy adjustment that frees up what we’re really talking about: working memory capacity. When I’m not maxed out, I’m more likely to demonstrate self-regulated behaviors or goal-oriented behavior.

Looking at the physical environment, acoustic environment, visual environment, routines, instruction—it’s a fascinating lens to put on when you’re reviewing your practice.

Lori: And that word “should”—I always warn people to take it out of their vocabulary when they’re talking about children or students. You shouldn’t be saying they should be able to do this at this time. It depends on the child and where they’re at developmentally.

Mitch: The word I rely on is curiosity. Putting on a pair of EF glasses is being curious about what you’re seeing. Instead of “You can’t do this, something’s wrong with you,” it’s “What’s going on here?” Executive functions bring that curiosity.

Lori: Thank you for that. That’s why in the early grades it’s so critical to be mindful of this aspect of learning, and how either compromised executive functions—or the fact that they’re developing—affects learning.

And yes, we’ve all had moments of exasperation. We say, “You should know how to put your chair up,” or “We’ve been through this.” But in our best moments, we’re mindful of where they are and we reflect: what have I not been clear about? What do I need to change?

Because we’re laying foundational skills with content and with navigating the hidden curriculum of school. We expect kids to raise their hand, but we have to teach that: you think of something to say, and then you raise your hand. Older grade teachers wouldn’t even think that’s something you have to teach.

Being explicit—this is how you close your locker, how you zipper your backpack—those things carry forward. When they miss that aspect of school, it often looks like they’re not learning content, but when we dig deeper, it might not be what’s going on.

Mitch: I’d argue it leads to a more inclusive learning environment when instead of “Why can’t you do this?” it’s curiosity equipped with knowledge of executive functioning and development. It doesn’t feel good when someone says “You should be able to…” especially for the young one.

A child’s lived experience outside of school can impact all of this. I just see more inclusive learning environments through the EF lens.

Lori: Thanks. I’m curious. You’ve written a second book. Mitch, you wrote Executive Functions for Every Classroom: Creating Safe and Predictable Learning Environments, Grades 3–12. And now you’ve co-authored a new book.

Mitch: Yes. The feedback from the first book has been really well received globally, but it was the primary folks saying, “What about K–1–2–3?” We overlap those on purpose because of that inflection point.

So Sarah and I teamed up and wrote Executive Functions for Every K–3 Classroom: Promoting Self-Regulation for a Strong Start. Due out in April.

Lori: Good timing because this podcast will come out around April. Maybe May. And why Sarah? Sarah, how did you come into this picture to write the book?

Mitch: You tell the story, Sarah.

Sarah: I’ll tell the story. It struck me that I had never heard executive functions talked about in the context of Tier 1. Anytime you talk about executive functions, it’s in the context of special education or a specialized context.

For years, I’ve felt like we are so dependent on these processes working well. It doesn’t matter if you’re in music class, speech, an autism program, or phonics—it’s relevant for everybody.

The first time I heard Mitch, I thought: finally, someone is acknowledging that this matters for every student and every teacher.

Primary teachers were having such a hard time—forget teaching reading or math—we were having a hard time getting attention and keeping attention, getting kids to remember anything. You’ll say directly to someone, “What are you going to do?” They repeat it back, they go back to their seat, and they stare at the wall. And you’re like, what is going on?

If you can’t get them to mentally engage, there’s not going to be learning. Mitch and I joked about writing a book, but didn’t think it would happen. Then he said, “I have an idea, I think we should write a book,” and I said yes.

For me, I need this as a teacher. It shouldn’t be hidden away in databases. It should be available to us because it’s relevant in my classroom every day. Even though I’m a general education teacher, I need my kids to remember. I need them to pay attention. I need them to recognize when they need help and begin to help themselves without stigma.

So we wrote a book. The goal is to say: here is information we think you should have learned. We’ll give examples to contextualize it, but you take the knowledge and apply it in your context to professionalize your decision-making.

Lori: Thanks.

Mitch: And for me, I was lucky enough that Sarah reached out. I sat in on a workshop Sarah gave on working memory and cognitive load, and I’ve never heard such a clear and practical explanation of working memory capacity—that it is finite and we need to protect it because that’s the engine for learning.

Then, fast forward: primary folks were always the first to sign up for anything EF-related. I did focus groups with K–3 teachers to learn their experience. I didn’t want to pretend I’m a primary teacher because I’m not.

It needed to be out in the world. And we wanted primary teachers to feel seen and heard and respected for what they do.

And honestly, every secondary teacher would benefit from spending an entire day in a really gifted primary teacher’s classroom. The intentionality is incredible. I want every teacher to read this book—primary, but also secondary and even college professors—because it’s relevant.

We’ve also heard people say parents and teacher prep programs should be including this. It’s the hidden curriculum of school and also the hidden curriculum of teaching.

Lori: And you’re suggesting they explicitly teach these executive functioning sections.

Mitch: I would say we explicitly or intentionally craft the environment in ways that lead to better executive functioning, as opposed to saying, “Let’s talk about goal setting.” What if we set goals within the context of age and development and measure them over short periods?

We unpack it into the learning environment: instruction and routines—how do I reduce cognitive load, free up working memory capacity, and create situations where executive functions are more likely to develop?

Sarah: And I want your listeners to know: these are not lessons. This is not saying, “Kids, we have a working memory.” This is teacher knowledge—a lens for how you set up your classroom, how you pace your instruction, and how you look at students who are struggling.

We are not trying to force students to improve executive functions, because that’s happening naturally. You’re not going to tell a student, “We’re going to make you get taller now.” It’s happening. But because you understand development, you design the environment accordingly.

We’re honoring what students have. We’re not pushing them further. It’s: now that I know this, I shouldn’t put that there, or I should give one direction and stop—small things that improve the things you’re already doing.

Mitch: And everything Sarah just said requires that you know who’s in the room. Relationships are paramount. Being intentional about adjustments means I have to get to know students and where they are, and invite families in to support the work.

Lori: Perfect. I think we’re running out of time, but let me ask: if a school wanted to start strengthening their executive functioning development in K–3 tomorrow, what’s one high-leverage shift they could make?

Mitch: Read our book first. You first have to know about it. Seriously. But go ahead, Sarah.

Sarah: The easiest, most tangible move you could make quickly would be to look at your physical space through the lens of executive functioning—really attention. Should I have this here? Is this distracting? Because I’m instructing here, and here’s this cool display, and I’m expecting students to ignore that and look at me.

We still want classrooms to look warm and inviting and cozy. But do it in a way that doesn’t make it harder for students to filter out irrelevant information and pay attention to what they’re supposed to be paying attention to.

Mitch: Yeah. Doing an ecological inventory is also fun through the EF lens—physical environment, acoustics, visual environment.

We also talk about “a noisy classroom is a productive classroom.” Well, it might be, but it might not be. There might be students for whom it’s impossible to stay focused. So how do I adjust that?

I agree: the most tangible next step is looking at the environment.

Lori: I really think we could chat all day about this. This didn’t even scratch the surface, but they have a new book to read and, Mitch, your first book. People can do deep dives. Executive functioning is paramount in the lives of our students, and it needs to be a focus. So I’m glad your book’s there and that our listeners have a chance to read it. Thanks for writing it and thanks for being here today.

Mitch: Thanks for having us.

Sarah: Thanks for having us.