Transcript

Transcribed by Kanako Suwa

[Intro music plays] Welcome to the SENIA Happy Hour podcast with your host, Lori Boll. We know you’re busy so we bring you one hour’s worth of content in under 30 minutes, leaving you time for a true happy hour.

Lori: Hello listeners and welcome to Happy Hour. Today’s is all about assistive technology. And I speak with Jeff Sisk, who is the Senior Manager of Assistive Technology Services in Fairfax County Public Schools, Virginia, which is the 12th largest school district in the United States. He has been working in this field of assistive technology or AT for over 25 years and actively participates in the planning and implementation of district technology initiatives. He collaborates with regional assistive technology partners and hosts a biennial assistive technology conference. Jeff also regularly speaks at state and national conferences and has provided technology, auditing, and training for the United States Department of State’s international schools. He’s served as an adjunct instructor at George Mason University for more than 15 years and has co -authored an Assistive Technology Industry Association’s Assistive Technology Outcomes and Benefits Journal. Say that 10 times fast. And the journal is called Voices from the Field, the Assistive Technology Services experience of the 2020 -21 school year. Prior to his career in assistive technology, Jeff was a special education teacher. So I’m really excited about today’s show. We speak all things AT and I learned a lot from Jeff. So I’m excited for you to hear it. So now on to the show.

Well, hello Jeff and welcome to the podcast.

Jeff: Hi, how are you doing today, Lori? Glad to be here.

Lori: Well, I’m doing great. Thank you. So I’ve already told the guests, the listeners, what your background is. Given your extensive experience in assistive technology and your role in shaping technology initiatives in such a huge school district, we’re eager to dive into your insights. So to start off, how do you see technology currently contributing to inclusive student learning environments?

Jeff: Sure, as you mentioned, I work in a very large school district. It’s the 12th largest in the United States. So we have very diverse populations with very diverse learning needs. And I always considered that exciting.

And I also really kind of came in at a time with technology, really in its beginning of evolution in terms of how it’s being used in the classroom. So I was, I began as a classroom teacher, you know, kind of exploring methods and I was a special education teacher to improve students’ abilities to read and write and perform really any classroom task in time. And so I think it’s very exciting now that we have so many one -to -one computing initiatives that are in schools and students have access to so many broad technology tools.

And these tools can really foster that inclusive learning environment that you spoke to. So there’s so many opportunities for personalized learning, where students can self -select tools that best meets their instructional needs and best accommodates their learning deficits, and then also speaks to learning strengths that they may have, there’s better opportunities to collaborate. And of course, that also lends to different types of learning projects and experiences inside of classrooms. And we’re example of that even right now, even though we’re not necessarily doing with some education, but it allowed us to connect and even have this conversation, the technology that is available now. There’s just more tools for enhanced learning experiences, better ways for students to express themselves in literacy, reading and writing, mathematics and projects, and really just engaging and creative approaches that otherwise if those technology tools were not around, they just really have the opportunity to grab a hold and use those. And it’s just a matter of just really acknowledging that they’re there, recognizing that they’re there, and creatively in building them and implementing them in your instruction.

Lori: Great. Thanks so much. We really want to dive into that assistive technology piece today. So first off, can you just define that for us? What is it?

Jeff: Yeah, so by law, it’s actually been defined in the Individual with Disabilities Education Act federally here in the United States, IDEA, as any tool and or service that will increase, improve, or maintain the functional capabilities of a student. So I feel like that definition, more maybe loosely defined, levels the playing field for students that have some type of specific learning need. It’s just providing them access to curriculum. And the technology tools build those supports to allow them to engage in classroom content at the same level as their peers. 

And that’s really exciting for me personally. And I’ve watched a lot of students over a lot of years be able to access instruction, be able to be part of classrooms that they otherwise would have been excluded from. And so that’s assistive technology really at its core and why it is a required tool for those students rather than just even being a beneficial tool for those students.

Lori: Thanks, yeah. I know that when I was first teaching in a classroom for students with more higher support needs really, I learned that assistive technology could be something as simple as a button that students push that has one saying on it, right? Versus all the way to maybe an iPad where they’re using Proloquo2Go or some sort of communication software to help them actually make choices. 

Jeff: Yeah, speech, thank you.

Lori: Thank you, I can’t speak right now. So, yeah, so I thought that was really interesting is that it doesn’t have to be these complex, like assistive technology is not necessarily this complex system. It’s everything as you described.

Jeff: Yeah, another analogy that I’ve heard or just that many, many people have access to are eyeglasses or contact lenses. That is increasing, improving, or maintaining your ability to perform within that classroom.

And I think that that’s a really good example, too, that most people can relate to, because they’re not going to be able to visually see or participate in anything going around them unless they had those eyeglasses or those contact lenses, or even the LASIK surgery would be the medical, you know, surgical version of that, which is not assistive technology, necessarily. But, but, you know, that is usually just kind of assumed that it’s there to participate in doing what you’re going to do in the class that day. And so I like that analogy, too. I think there’s a lot of good things there that you’re pointing out that people jump to me to, you know, this more advanced, you mentioned the iPad with Proloquo2Go as an augmentative communication speech generating device, very high tech, but those low tech accommodations can go a lot away. The simplest, I’m a big fan of simple and easy. Those are the best assistive technology tools or the simple and easy assistive technology tools.

Lori: Well, let me put you on the spot. What are some other easy assistive technology tools? 

Jeff: Sure. So there’s a couple I think that we’re going to speak to in a little bit. And again, I think that even simple and easy is changing. So it’s really where you’re accessing your reading materials and writing materials and your content.

And I’m seeing more and more of that actually happening on the computer as opposed to in a paper format. And so those tools I’m finding are being built into your computer systems more and more all of the time. You just have to really just kind of know that they’re there. And so the two places that I go to first are speech to text. So that is having the auditory supports for your computers to read to you. And then the opposite is… I’m sorry, I just reversed that. I meant to say, text to speech, excuse me. So that will have your computer read aloud to you.

But then the flip of that, I think is just as convenient, which is what I’ve mentioned first, speech to text. And that is allowing your computer to dictate and write to you. Those are a couple of clicks away on every computer, pretty much that’s out there in whatever operating system that’s out there. And you can even say that you have it in your pocket and every person that has a cell phone is carrying around those tools in their pocket. So their phones or their computers can read to them and provide auditory supports and additional auditory processing for that information, or then provide written dictation tools so that you’re not necessarily having to type or even express yourselves where you’re writing through that. Typing can sometimes be a barrier, of course, and that’s just an easy way for them. Do you just put those thoughts onto a document that can be cut and pasted and manipulated very easily? So those are the two places I think I would go to first in this day and age. 20 years ago, we would be looking at more paper supports.

Lori: Right. Well, years ago, I hurt my arm and I needed to use speech -to -text, and I realized that I’m much more efficient and effective in my own writing when I use speech -to -text, so I use that quite often. And I always use it when I’m text messaging. My daughter calls me a boomer. 

Jeff: So can I ask you, because I know the difference in how that looks in terms of the evolution of these technology tools, The tools that you were using that long ago, I would assume were much more difficult than the tools that you may have access now. Is that a correct statement?

Lori: That is true. When I would use it with my students, we would have to have them sit down and they’d have to train it to recognize their voice patterns and all of that. Now, that’s not necessary. 

Jeff: Yes. 

Lori: You just start and it works.

Jeff: Yes. That is amazing to me. I remember that’s to me how technology can evolve. I remember the first time that I saw that in a Google document. I see that in a lot of educational environments, not just here in Fairfax County Public Schools in Virginia, but many, many other places where their Google documents are just being opened up and used as the main word processor for students. When that tools menu included that voice typing option, It wasn’t announced. There wasn’t to me a lot of press around it. It was a call that I got from a friend of ours in the IT department. He just said, Jeff, have you checked this thing out in Google? I looked and I saw the drop -down and I was like, that is fantastic and I wonder how many steps it takes to set that up exactly what you’re describing. Wonder how long I have to read to this computer for it to learn who I am. But instead, in a couple of clicks, it magically worked and what a game -changer for a lot of kids. That was just a great day, great leap in our technology evolution.

Lori: Also just a great example of universal design for learning, right?

Jeff: Yes.

Lori: It’s not just a great tool for our students who have neurodiversity or whatever. Anyone can use it and it’s beneficial. So you were talking about using assistive technology and some of the tools you use. Can you share a success story of how assistive technology is significantly improved as students learning experience?

Jeff: Sure. I’m glad you asked that because I’ve been involved with professional development for a number of years, close to 20 years. And my role as an assistive technology coach and now as an assistive technology administrator. And as good as I think I am, there is nobody better than a student speaking to how they use assistive technology. And those stories carry so much more weight than I could ever carry in terms of getting up in front of a group of teachers and explaining the benefits of assistive technology.

And we have developed a group of students here that anybody could look up and see. If you look for Fairfax County Public Schools, AT Ambassadors, Assistive Technology Ambassadors, they’re students that are willing to share their story. And we have done on our public webpage and there’s one I’ll specifically point out because she’s just a fantastic story. They’re all fantastic stories. So I guess I shouldn’t favor one over another, but she’s just a student that I’ve been working with for a long time and her name is Emmy. And her story was first published in a, it’s a great video. It’s only a three, three and a half minute video. It’ll tell the story very well and you get to actually see and meet her in fifth grade. And it was about the time that she was diagnosed with dyslexia and not revealing any confidential information when I tell the story because her and her family are very open to telling this experience. And her family participated in this little video segment that we have towards her assistive technology use and assistive technology tools.

When she was diagnosed with dyslexia, she wanted to explore what that actually meant for her. I think that there was a little bit of fear associated with that for her, that diagnosis, and also what the impact with that would be for her at school, and how she could continue because she liked being in the classes that she was in, but she was struggling with reading. We were able to document basically her own advocacy where she looked into the tools that she wanted to use to support her reading needs on her school -assigned computer, and then her going back in and showing her teacher and others in the school the tools that would best benefit her so that she can continue participating in her fifth grade class. We were able to capture that video just before COVID.

And that became a great, of course, we relied more on computing technology than ever for instruction during COVID closures. That became a great way to give a student example of how they self -selected the assistive technology tools that best met their needs, and then how they were able to communicate and implement those in their regular school setting. To this day, Emmy remains one of our most active AT ambassadors. She is in 10th grade. She is in advanced academic placement classes, and she still uses those tools to have speech to text for, yes. And text to speech, both. I’m gonna reverse those back and forth in this whole conversation, so I apologize. Apologize, Emmy, if you turn around and listen to this, how she advocates for the use of those tools and those academic settings so that she can access all of the reading and all of the writing that she needs to do and keep up with the pace of those rigorous classes. So she remains with us as a fantastic student example of assistive technology integration in a universal design for learning environment and as a success story. And again, she’s not the only one. These are just the students that are willing to share their stories. I go back to that because we have many, many others with similar stories.

Lori: Well, first off, well done, Emmy, if you’re listening. And I think it, first off, advocacy is something you mentioned there that Emmy advocates for herself. And I’m curious about the advocacy piece in terms of a student learns of what works for them. Is it the expectation of that student to share that with the teachers? Is there anything from your position at your school where you also advocate for the student?

Jeff: Absolutely, Lori. We really take, we’ve really, especially over the past two or three years, more recent years, a really strong emphasis on that universal design for learning approach that you mentioned. So we don’t want this to be one person, whoever that person would be, to drive this type of instructional change. It’s what we call our collective responsibility. It’s the collective responsibility of a team inside of a school to advocate and to use these types of technology tools. 

And if you go back, I’m gonna again mention the video again, what I love about the video, it’s hard to tell in that video who is actually driving the change for Emmy to use these technology tools inside of her classroom. Everybody speaks to the experience. And what I mean by everybody, it is Emmy, it’s her teachers, it’s her family, administrators, there is an assistive technology coach that is technology support within the school. There’s also another technology support personnel we would call our school -based technology specialists. All of them are active in the conversation so it doesn’t feel that it’s coming from one place and this person prefers to do it and that other person may disagree. It is that a Collective role of everyone to ensure any success because at the end of the day, that’s what anybody wants, right? we all want our students to succeed and That’s where we find that success is best met when everybody participates in it.

Lori: Yeah, thank you for that and we’ll post the link to that video in our show notes so everyone can actually get to it. 

Jeff: Absolutely.

Lori: So That brings me around to what are some common misconceptions about assistive technology? you’ve mentioned that it’s collective effort have you had pushback and What is that pushback and why?

Jeff: Yeah, I’m gonna go to two c -words here where where I think is the the pushback for assistive technology use and the first one is is cheating that we have run across some perceptions that are out there that these technology tools presents an advantage for students that’s unfair to other students that may not be receiving that advantage. But again, we go back to that definition of increase, improve or maintain. That’s all we’re looking to do is level the playing field. And that’s what I mentioned to earlier with that inclusive learning experience and the great things that technology tools can offer us. That is that personalized learning.

And go back to pretty much everybody has a cell phone and pretty much everybody has an iPhone and they may have pretty much the same model. But if they open their iPhones, they all look very different. It’s customized to the needs of the individual. And that’s what we go back to with the technology and technology and learning. We can customize a lot of our tools to the needs of our students locally. And then that they are going to take those tools to use to benefit them and support their needs. And I get back to that Emmy example. Emmy’s not cheating. She’s never been cheating. But she does have dyslexia. She does have something that prevents her from reading in a traditional way. And so these technology tools are accommodating that. And that allows her to participate in those advanced academic placement classes. You can even see with these types of tools that I mentioned in that universal designed environment, everyone has access to these tools. And so other types of students, such as English language learners, may benefit from using them also because they’re auditory. Excuse me, may provide additional auditory processing for what they’re attempting to read. So.

It may become a cumbersome tool for others, as an example. So it might get in the way and it might not be reading in the way that, say, a more visual learner may be able to interpret and read that text. So that’s where I think as a barrier that we’ve been working to overcome, I think that as more people familiarize themselves with the tools, the more they realize that that’s not the case, that cheating is not going on, that it actually is fostering learning and that we’re working to meet learning objectives for students. 

On the flip side of that, the other C -word that I refer to is the crutch, what we refer to as the crutch. So that if my student uses these tools, they’ll never learn to do this independently. And any body of research and any professional experience that I’ve come across actually fosters the opposite. It does the exact opposite. So. We’ve been talking a lot about text to speech, and I got it right that time, and I made sure that I watched myself before I said it. But really a different example of this is speech generating devices, so that a device that will foster communication, verbal communication for students that are nonverbal, for either physical or cognitive reasons or both. We’ll find over and over again with a speech generating device, the more a student begins to use a speech generating device, the more verbal they actually become. Because they start to understand the process of communication more and more and the benefit of communication more and more. It’s not cheating, it’s not a crutch, it does nothing but promote learning, and that’s the beauty of assistive technology.

Lori: Yeah, for sure. I know when I was using Proloquo to go with a student, her mom actually took away the iPad because she was convinced that it was taking away her ability to be verbal. 

Jeff: Sure. 

Lori: So we talked our way through it and it all worked out, but those are some misconceptions that definitely happen. So thanks for sharing those.

Jeff: Yeah, sure.

Lori: All right, so what’s the process of assessing a student’s needs and then matching them with the appropriate AT?

Jeff: So basically, what we do when we explore AT use with students is we’re always trialing the technology tools that are out there, and we look for the least restrictive tools for students as possible within a universal design for learning environment.

But with all of that said, we fall back on a framework that’s been established by a researcher for assistive technology a long time ago, Joyce Havala.

And it’s called the SETT framework, S -E -T -T. And the acronym that first is the student. And that makes sense that the student comes first, right? Because we want to know what specific learning needs that they have. And in an attempt to explore some technology accommodations that would be appropriate for them. So identifying student need, that’s the first piece. And then the E is environment. So what is the student’s learning environment? How are they accessing instruction? How are they participating in reading, writing, and other classroom tasks? How are they engaging and collaborating with other students within the classroom? And again, how do those needs then interact with the environment?

And then the first T represents task. What tasks are they attempting to perform? Are they attempting to write sentences, compose sentences, are they attempting to compose paragraphs, longer essays, read longer readings, shorter passages, or just exploring a reading in itself or even letter identification? So student, environment, task, and then finally the last two, we get to the tool. That’s when we finally make that determination. A lot of people like to work in reverse. Like, I’ve heard of this, so let’s try this. And typically when that approach is taken, it flops. I feel like kind of we’ve seen that like every time again and again just because something’s been discussed or advertised or shown somewhere. And this might work here, but there’s less consideration with those first three elements first, that student, the environment, and then the task. When those are really considered first, then you can begin that exploration for the tool, and then it really makes that commitment to the tool more lasting in that process. I’ve seen a lot of different types of, what we would say, assessment approaches. To me, none of them are, say, formal assessment approaches other than they’re based out of that set framework each and every time. And we have our own processes here in Fairfax County in Virginia, but we base them off of SETT.

Lori: Great. Thank you for that. That’s a new one for me. 

Jeff: Okay, sure. Yeah. 

Lori: Well, let’s talk about future. I mean, the future seems like it’s now, right? With all the AI and everything happening. But what are some possible future technology growth areas that will positively impact our classrooms?

Jeff: Yeah, you brought up the speech to text and I got that right, you know, this time again, instead of reversing it yet again. So we brought up that experience, right, with the Google document piece. And you don’t know what’s gonna hit you until it hits you. One thing that I like to go to, I feel like I’m very nerdy when this type of topic comes up. So my nerdiness is really flaring like in these moments. But I almost see the developments and technology developments that become accessibility developments almost happening in the world of video games first. It’s really kind of amazing, like the innovations that happen there for people to engage, and that’s really kind of the main thing, how they’re engaging with technology. As opposed to typing, a lot of video games don’t give you the time to type, right? So you need other access methods to engage with the technology and the dialogue that’s happening in that environment.

And I say right now that I’m really excited, and this really kind of really speaks more to students today with physical disabilities, more severe physical disabilities specifically, maybe some cognitive disabilities, but with eye gaze technology. And that is technology that’s tracking your eye movements so that it will engage and explore and assist you with reading and writing, not necessarily gaming, inside of a computing environment.

And so that I see is really kind of growing very, very rapidly now, as well as we mentioned, augmentative communication with speech generating devices. I think that’s becoming more inclusive. Fortunately, you know, for those student populations, I see more and more growth in companies that develop that type of technology, as opposed to really kind of developing a more intensive and expensive augmentative communication system to being tools that were easily accessed through a touch device, as you mentioned before, such as an iPad or any type of tablet. And that then becomes more recognizable to more people outside of that augmentative communication device user, because that’s an important part, too. So we may we may teach and use this with some of our students, but when we go to interact in an environment when people have not seen that type of communication before, that becomes a barrier.

So the more that those systems become more and more inclusive and more of a tier one approach inside of our multi -tiered systems of support, the better that is for kids or adults that use those types of tools. And then lastly, you mentioned AI as well. And I’m really excited for that. And I will say that in our district, we’re really kind of wrapping our heads around that, as that’s really growing unexpectedly very quickly for us at this time. Yeah. So how this is going to build processes for writing, because we all know what happens. And AI is far from perfect. And we just say, I’d like to have an essay on the French Revolution and what magically then will pop up. And with that, does it accurately convey what it’s supposed to convey inside of that documentation? Is it what we really kind of sought for as a task within the instruction, you know, and our teaching and in our learning? So I think that we’re figuring that out right now, but I think it also proposes some potential, you know, rewards for students that really are dysgraphic and that have executive functioning issues and struggle with the organizational processes of writing. I think there can be a lot of benefit with those students. And that’s exciting as we continue to figure that out and learn more about it.

Lori: Yeah, I keep exploring this AI. A recent one that’s come up for me is Ella Kids. And it’s great because it creates social stories. And you can kind of design the character yourself based off this, based off your student. And they’ll do like a cartoon version or a clay version or whatever version, but create a whole social story for you. 

Jeff: Yes. 

Lori: Within seconds, it used to take me hours, you know, and then get the clip art and put it in and everything. So that’s been really great. Just on my end as a teacher. But also I wanted to just go back to your discussion about using the AC device in public. An example, my son loves Starbucks and so he’s learned how to order a specific drink on his iPad.

Jeff: Excellent. 

Lori: And so we practice, I mean, it took a really long time, but we practice and he’s got it. But when we took it into Starbucks, they couldn’t hear it, they didn’t know how to read it. You know, it was just all that kind of like wonky kind of, oh, this is awkward. But as we kept going in there, of course, they were more and more accustomed to it. But I do think that’s kind of the future, is trying to get society to be more adapt, I don’t know what the word is.

Jeff: Aware, just awareness, 

Lori: building that awareness, sure. Yeah, and interacting with the kiddos and with their devices is so important, so.

Jeff: Yeah, there’s multiple means of communication, and I think that’s a learning experience for everyone. And again, I do see, I see at least in my kind of corner of the world, less segregation between those student populations. And that is just a great approach for universal design as we continue to do that in many facets in our educational environments.

Lori: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, Jeff, I think that’s all we have time for today. Thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom with us.

Jeff: I am happy to talk about this stuff anytime. It’s very exciting for me. It’s been my life’s work and my life’s passion. Thank you for inviting me, and if you ever want to talk more, I’m always happy to do so. Awesome.

Lori: Thanks a lot.

Jeff: All right. 

[Outro Music plays]

Thank you for joining us for today’s show. For more information, including how to subscribe and show notes, please head to our website. That’s seniainternational.org/podcasts. Until next time, cheers.