Transcript

[Intro music plays]

Lori: Well, hello Vanessa and welcome to happy hour.

Vanessa: Thank you, Lori for having me. I’m excited about this.

Lori: Good. Well, you’re you’re there in Shanghai, China. It’s late at night for you early morning for me So for my happy hour, I’m having a cup of coffee.

Vanessa: I’m actually joining you with a cup. So there you go. 

Lori: Oh, there you go. All right, so let’s get this party started. So I explained in your bio earlier that you are an art teacher and an artist and I wanted to talk with you today for so many reasons, but let’s talk about your art first. So you use fiber and digital media to explore themes of identity loss and beauty. How did these mediums become your tools for storytelling and what draws you to them today? 

Vanessa: Well, with regards to the fiber arts, I come from a lineage of women who would do a lot of cross -stitching, a lot of sewing. I was always helping my mom do stretching with fabric to make sure that the weft and warp were straight and so forth, and that sort of thing. And so I was just constantly around fiber and I had one of my my great grandmothers actually did drawings, her own drawings, and then put them into needlepoint. So that got me thinking about, wow, you know  fabric textiles, that can actually be used to express ideas and or, you know, personal have that personal meaning. And so that’s where that started. And then, as I moved overseas, the digital art kind of came from, you know, you take photographs of various places that you travel, but then also getting into working with Photoshop and Illustrator and that whole area and the immediacy of that. You don’t have to necessarily, you don’t have to have a traditional studio. You can pretty much travel with you. And yeah, so I like the tactile aspect of fiber. And I also love just the visually just engaging aspects of digital. So, yeah. 

Lori: Cool. Well, for a non -artist, me, this is all new for me. So thank you for explaining that. And so another reason I wanted to speak with you today is you are a woman living with spina bifida, and you’ve described your art as a way to challenge traditional ideas of beauty and normalcy. So how has your disability shaped your creative voice and your sense of identity? 

Vanessa: I would say that my disability or being, you know, differently abled, if you will, has really caused me to question what we are told in society is beautiful or normal. you know, when we look at what we’re told in a lot of times in society, it basically, I don’t fit those categories in that regard, you know, of what people say is normal. And I have actually learned to find beauty in imperfection and also really also wanting to challenge others to consider through their own life’s journeys, how to embrace their own normal, you know, their own complexities, you know, we’re all very complex. We’re not two dimensional in any way. And so, yeah, yeah, beautiful. And I think also just redefining what perfect means. 

Lori: Yes, you mentioned imperfection and I would say you’re perfect who you are. 

Vanessa: Yes, yes, exactly and I had the phrase I’m sure you’ve heard this phrase perfectly imperfect. You know, and and and that is, and you know, and it’s, it’s been a journey to to really be able to say that and embrace that. You know, and in my art has really been a vehicle for me to really process a lot of these complexities these these things. 

Lori: Nice, thank you. Well, let’s get into your childhood. Can you share about how your own schooling experience was growing up? Was there moments that shaped your path as both an artist and an educator living with a disability? 

Vanessa: Yeah, actually, so I grew up in, I claim Kansas as my home of record. I spent a fair amount of time there, but I did actually grow up in Oklahoma City and where I was living as a child, our backyard butted up against the playground of the neighborhood elementary school. And 1976, I’m old, was when I was to start kindergarten and my parents, assumed that, you know, I, you know, they, they being the biggest advocates of embracing my, my normal, you know, thought that, yes, I was going to be attending that elementary school just like the rest of the children. And so when it came time for that enrollment, the school said no. They, they said that I needed to be bused across town to essentially what was an institutional type of school, you know, where the, and I do air quotes, special children go. 

And my mom, my, my fiery mother, I love her advocate for this. She marched down to the school and You know what, really quickly, I have, I’m gonna, can we pause for a second? 

Lori: Yeah. 

Vanessa: I have a cat that is being very, so she – A vocal. Well, yeah, and she’s about to be, she’s a Thai cat. I’m gonna put her in my bedroom. I’ll be right back. 

Lori: Okay. 

Vanessa: I’m sorry, she’s 17 years old and normally she’s asleep right now, but – Yeah. Anyway, okay, we’re good, we’re good, I’m sorry. 

Lori: No worries, no worries. Yeah. Where do you wanna pick up? 

Vanessa: Um, I could just say that she marched down. Do you want me to just start with that? 

Lori: Yeah. 

Vanessa: So she marched down to the school, the elementary school and spoke to the administration. Basically, she came armed with all of the medical equipment that I need to be able to get through a day. 

Can you hear that? 

Lori: No. 

Vanessa: Okay, sorry. Okay, start again. Sorry. So she marched down to the school with all of my medical equipment that I would need to get through a day, and basically was determined that she was going to actually train the administration on how to support me so that I could be integrated and be included into the elementary school. And very impassioned, and they were pushing her back. Well, funny enough… the the elementary school nurse overheard this and she came forward and actually said to my mom in the midst of this that she would be happy to be um you know educated and trained in how she could support me um and and that that basically was the was the final um thing that needed to happen that that allowed me to to be included uh into the school um and and and it really boiled down to you know my mom you know she wasn’t it wasn’t like this big you sort of i mean she was impassioned it wasn’t like a confrontation but she was able to dispel misunderstandings and just the lack of awareness. And I think that that had a huge impact. 

And so when it came time like 18 years ago when I decided to make the move overseas, the thought that was in my mind that very much was inspired by my mom is the idea of, why not? Why not? And that’s what made me decide. I can find a way, I can do this. When I was younger, before I was really using the wheelchair more as I’ve gotten older, I was ambulating with them, cane and with braces when I was much younger and I so I drove, you know, like there’s always this there’s always this idea of well, why not, you know, like, you know, let’s find a way. 

Yes, let’s find a way. And, and let’s hear it for fiery moms and dads who are always advocating for their kids right yes yes. Yeah, exactly sounds like a very special person. Yes, and I don’t say that in air quotes. It’s the truth. Yes. All right, so you’ve taught visual art and design across the US, Thailand, Korea, and East Africa. So how have these diverse cultural experiences influenced both your teaching practice and your personal artwork. 

Lori: Wow. Oh, that’s yeah, wow. 

Vanessa: I would say, I mean, it is tremendously impacted me. I’ve, well, one, one thing I would say that it has opened my eyes, especially in the area of, you know, someone with a disability, you know, differently abled. It’s given me a picture into the life experiences of what people in other countries, how they have to navigate their normal, what that looks like. You know, when I think about what I saw and experienced in Korea versus, you know, Tanzania and East Africa was, it was, you know, very, very different. And so looking, you know, being exposed to that, and I would say that it’s allowed me to be able to embrace diverse perspectives. Also, you know, ways of telling stories and ways of expressing yourself. There’s just just such a wide range of that. And, you know, especially for me, textiles, I’m always I’m always keyed in on that. And so that’s been really neat to see different embroidered goods and different cultures and and that sort of thing. 

And how to, you know, bring in a lot of that into my teaching practice. 

Lori: Yeah, so.  Great. Well, speaking of your art, tell us about it. 

Vanessa: About my actual art, making my art. 

Lori: Yes. 

Vanessa: Okay. Well, I would say, so I really got into Japanese dye techniques. And there’s one in particular that I really enjoyed doing when I was in university, getting my BFA in textile design was, it’s called Katazome. And it’s a paper stencil method that’s connected to screen printing. And, and so through that, working with that particular technique, it led me into looking more into emulsion -based screen printing and dyes, you know, dyes impacting fabric. One of the cool things I kind of learned was about fabric in the Greek. The word for for dyeing fabric is is baptismo, which is connected to this idea of baptism where, you know, and the concept being that when you we learned early on that when you dye a fabric, you actually alter the color of the fiber on a molecular level. And I found that really powerful, like that sort of connection of, you know, taking, you know, I use raw silk quite a bit and how, you know, that I can actually take this fabric and when I dye it, it becomes a completely different 

I mean, it’s still raw silk, but the color has changed itself from this internal, from the inside out. And that really resonated with me, that there were things that I felt that I wanted the world to know and understand that maybe they weren’t seeing possibly as a result of my disability. Misconceptions of what it is, you know, one of the questions I get oftentimes living overseas is, you know, people will meet me, you know, and they’ll be like, oh, so where’s where’s your family? And I’m like, just me and my two cats, they just can’t fathom that I’m doing this on, you know, on my own. 

Um, anyway, so yeah, that’s where that the art for me and also what I started exploring was anatomy books, spent a lot of time looking through Grey’s Anatomy, the actual book, right? Taking those images and sketching images from that, but rearranging body parts, um, putting, you know, a pelvis as a head, putting a spine upside down so that the coccyx becomes a part of the connecting element to, you know, the the bottom part, you know, the pelvis, basically. And so the idea being, so very surreal, very much surrealism going on there. And can be, I think at first glance, a little jarring and disturbing. You know, it can be misunderstood until you really kind of understand the story. 

You know, I have had reactions that, you know, they have been sort of, like I said, disturbed by it. And it always just kind of makes me laugh because it’s kind of like, that’s sort of how people, you know, react to, you know, my feet. My feet, for example, are deformed and, you know, kind of that response. You know, it’s very interesting. But I found that by, and also the whole, just the spinal column became a motif for me. In my digital work, I’ve done a lot where it’s become very serpentine for me, and that idea of, you know, there’s beauty in that, but then there’s also that element of, you know, like foreboding maybe danger, just, you know, kind of what’s going on here, you know. So yeah, that would be some of the things I’ve explored. Also female, the backs of female figures, again, you know, not, you know, showing very normal, what I would say very normal body forms, you know, not these curated physical forms that the media you know, portrays or actually tries to tell us is normal, you know. 

So I would say that that’s some of the ways, you know, with my artwork and then also added to that there’s been situations that I’ve experienced in my life added compounded to having the disability, you know, had it like a freak accident where a plate window actually fell on me when I was about eight years old, nearly almost cutting me in half and, you know, making sense of just that and always feeling. And again, the artwork just really let me process these things. You know, I always kind of compartmentalized things and thought, oh, I’m not I’m not, quote, traumatized by those. But what I was realizing was that. 

You know, with regards to that incident, for example, there was always this back, the suspicion in the background is it’s because of your, you know, your physical is because of your disability that this has happened. 

Lori: Oh, I see. 

Vanessa: Yeah, so. 

Lori: So, you have a show. 

Vanessa: Yes. 

Lori: Coming up. 

Vanessa: Yes. Yes, I do. I have. 

Lori: Congratulations. 

Vanessa: Thank you. It’s my first solo exhibition. I’ve always been in like group shows. Well and also, I’ll be very honest, you know, I talked about the fact that I use raw silk. And I talk about sharing my art is a very raw experiences, very raw feeling it’s, I feel there’s an element of feeling very exposed. 

And so I hadn’t really wanted to almost embrace, it’s weird, the artwork. And anyways, I shared with a local artist. She’s incredible. And she, I’d met her in 2020. And so I just, she’s also a textile artist and explores a lot of fiber art. And so I just started, I just shared one day and she was just so encouraging. And she goes, you need to get yourself, you need to do a solo exhibition. And I found this, it’s a little gallery like wine bar where they do wine tastings and so forth, but it’s got a really neat space. 

And so yes, I’m gonna have my first solo exhibition on May 10th.  And I’m really, really excited. The gallery owner is also very encouraging. So, yeah. 

Lori: And what’s the name of it? 

Vanessa: The name of the show I’m doing. 

Lori: Yeah. Yeah, sorry. 

Vanessa: The name of the show is, I’m calling it My Normal. 

Lori: Nice. Yeah. I love it. So as an educator with a disability working internationally, what’s something you wish more schools understood or did better to support disabled teachers? 

Vanessa: I would say, well, I mean, one that’s just kind of like, sort of, I think, can be obvious but not obvious, is providing more, well, prioritizing accessibility, recognizing things like you know, door frames, you know, door frames that aren’t wide enough for wheelchairs or door frames that are, you know, doors that are actually too heavy to open, you know, trying to, you know, or even like, you know, they, you know, thinking, oh, it’d be a nice little architectural detail to have a step there. But that limiting my ability to actually go into that space, you know, so more ramps and yeah, those are some of the practical things. 

Well, and the bathrooms, you know, having accessible bathrooms and, you know, counters and shelves that are lower or providing, you know, spaces where there’s options, there’s a sink that maybe is for someone who’s really tall, but then there’s a sink for someone where someone in a wheelchair can also reach. And so I would say practically speaking, I think that that’s really, really important. And also, I would say, and I know it’s probably something that you have spoken about and within SENIA and the advocacy work that they do and addressing what can be, what I would say, unconscious biases, being aware of those things. 

I think over 10 years ago, just for example, I had just a situation where apparently, there had been some misinformation that had gone around about me. And I actually had two former colleagues, one three years ago and then one two years ago, that came back to me. And actually, it was clear that they had gone through training about unconscious bias, biases, I should say, and came back to me and actually apologized that they realized that the facts and the work that I was doing within the context of the school and the students, it didn’t line up with the information. And they realized that, you know, that they believed it and they realized that they had believed it based on, you know, the perception that I was deficient or, you know, maybe not competent, if you will, because of the physical difference, the disability. So for them to come back and own that was pretty powerful. So it also showed me that we do have the ability to, when we reflect on these things, that we have the ability to gain knowledge and move forward and do better. And I think that that’s something that I would say that I’ve experienced and was really thankful that we were able to sort of come to a common understanding and it was based on truth. Yeah, and so perhaps schools may want to invest in some. training in unconscious bias and such. 

Lori: Yeah, okay.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Vanessa: And I think – 

Lori: Oh yeah, go on, please. 

Vanessa: And along with that, I just wanna, really quickly, I, about five years ago when I was here in Shanghai, still, because I’ve been in Shanghai since 2018, had a lovely English teacher who was very big into, the novel that they would read was about a character protagonist that had a disability. And she actually would have me come in and I would always start out with a video, UNICEF video of this young boy from Nepal who’s an artist. But the way, and the way the video is presented, they don’t immediately talk about the fact that he does not have any arms or legs. He paint using his mouth. And what I say to the students or what I, and I mean, this is this, well, first of all, art brings life. 

That’s the one thing I say. I do, I truly believe that the art brings life. But also I said, when you look around the world at conflicts and wars and, you know, just all this stuff that we see going on in the world globally, one of the things that I’m convinced of is that when we strip someone of their humanity, we strip them of the dignity that they deserve. And so I would say that part of, you know, working with this, the idea of unconscious biases is that to look for the humanity in each other. And through that, and then even taking that further going, you know, this is a fellow human, therefore they’re going to have strengths and weaknesses just like I do, you know, and looking for strengths, you know, but I think stripping someone of their humanity is just really harmful to a community. 

Lori: Oh, for sure. Well, you know, I’ll find that video and put it in our show notes for the podcast and also, of course, a link to your artwork. 

So, listeners, take a look at Vanessa’s work and enjoy that. So I have one more practical question for you and then one kind of fun one. What advice would you give to educators, especially art teachers, I guess, who want to incorporate more inclusion and disability representation into their curriculums? 

Vanessa: Well, first of all, I would say, you know, when you’re talking about it, talking about it as this is just a natural normal, this is this person’s normal. We all have our own normal and diversity is normal. And I think that’s one thing that we need to make sure that we are very clear about from the beginning and that our normal is not a deficit. And I, you know, those things, I would say, you know, obviously more representation of, you know, differently abled artists. It’s funny that you asked this question because just recently I’ve been working with a coordinator for our external trips. And one of the things that we had started talking about is how to start incorporating art, the idea of, you know, art, of course, but how to make it accessible and meaningful for someone who might be visually impaired. And so then I started talking about, well, I know for a fact, because I follow her, there is an artist out of Italy who is blind and she, 

You know, she has some level of sight vision, if you will, and she does these incredible light paintings, these paintings, I mean, it’s just beautiful and it just goes to show that we’re not two dimensional, that we’re, you know, that we’re, like I said, we’re complex. And so I started talking with the coordinator about, you know, well, you know, why don’t we explore, you know, partnering up, you know, a student with someone who is visually impaired and they create an artwork that explores textures, that has different textures, or, you know, having someone who is visually impaired describe. 

you know, our minds are going to, you know, visual images, I mean, you know, surely they’re going to have visual images, right? You know, do that. And so, you know, exploring that and how could that be expressed maybe through a tactile experience? And it was like, it was really kind of neat that, you know, the coordinator was like, wow, you know, like, not hadn’t that hadn’t been considered before. And, you know, but it, but it is out there and it is possible, you know. 

Lori: Oh, beautiful. Thank you. All right. So very important question for you. If your art had a signature cocktail or mocktail, what would it be called and what would be in it? 

Vanessa: Well, it would be the resilient spiral is what it would be called. And when I say spiral, I don’t mean spiraling down in a negative way. I mean, you know, the idea of just movement and how I deal with, you know, a fluidity through my artwork with regards to the spines and so forth, the serpentine spines. And it would be they would have what I would say is a blend of like earthy notes because I use a lot of earthy dye colors, especially with my textiles. I am inspired a lot by retablo’s and of Latin America. You know, a lot of the venerated images. 

holy images, if you will. And so they all tend to, they can have these earthy tones to them. But then it would have like these notes of pomegranate and then spicy, of course, ginger. Gotta have some spiciness in there. And I would say splash of tonic, that and these elements, the pomegranate, the ginger and the tonic would symbolize complexity and thriving. Just the idea, I like to call myself a thriver, not just a survivor, but a thriver. That’s the way I like to define it, my life. And yeah, and then a garnish of an edible flower to talk about beauty rising from imperfection. 

Lori: I love that. And SENIA Peeps, now you have a new drink to explore called the Resilient Spiral. Order it at the next bar you go to and see what they say. That’s awesome. Love it. Well, Vanessa, thank you so much for your time today. I so enjoyed talking to you and learning from you and exploring your normal. 

Vanessa: Thank you. Thank you this amazing platform to be able to do this. So you’re welcome.